The Foreman Awards For Excellence In Humanity - December 4th

[ericcoleman]

Let's talk about Dennis Prager. He is in a tizzy about incoming congressman Keith Ellison because Ellison, a Muslim, wants to take his oath of office on the Koran. Well, duh, it is his holy book. Prager says, and I quote

"Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible."

Of course there is one little glitch, that being the US Constitution.

Article VI, Section 3 has this to say.

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

And second

Last year Bill O'Reilly went of on his yearly rant about the phrase "Happy Holiday" being a threat to Christmas. The best part of that was for a week or more into his nightly rants, you could go to the Fox News website and buy Bill O'Reilly holiday ornaments.

This year, he's off on IPods. He says

"I don't own an iPod. I would never wear an iPod... If this is your primary focus in life - the machines... it's going to have a staggeringly negative effect, all of this, for America... did you ever talk to these computer geeks? I mean, can you carry on a conversation with them?"

You can even download the podcast where he says all that if you want.




[Poll #881637]

A special thanks to democraticunderground.com for pointing out the links

Comments

[pheltzer.livejournal.com]

One has to also wonder which Bible Prager is talking about. I'm pretty sure my Bible is considerably different than what I assume he's referrencing. Would he object to a Jewish Congressman taking the oath on the Tanakh, or a Mormon taking the oath on the Book of Mormon?

And this would be why most of the Middle East believes we're on a crusade to abolish the Muslim religion. Hey Asshats in Congress... all Muslims are not terrorists. The sooner you figure that out... the better life will be for everyone on the planet. You know maybe if they think we're not out to destroy their beliefs, maybe they'll back off their attempts to destroy ours. Just a suggestion.

[ericcoleman]

Read the article ... he says ...

"But for all of American history, Jews elected to public office have taken their oath on the Bible, even though they do not believe in the New Testament, and the many secular elected officials have not believed in the Old Testament either. Yet those secular officials did not demand to take their oaths of office on, say, the collected works of Voltaire or on a volume of New York Times editorials, writings far more significant to some liberal members of Congress than the Bible. Nor has one Mormon official demanded to put his hand on the Book of Mormon. And it is hard to imagine a scientologist being allowed to take his oath of office on a copy of "Dianetics" by L. Ron Hubbard."

All of which, of course, is total BS.

[pheltzer.livejournal.com]

Well damn... I guess I'll just have to get myself elected to Congress so I can take my oath on the Old Testament just to spite this guy. How's that for a platform... elect me so I can shove Prager's ignorance back in his face?

[ericcoleman]

The thing is ... people have ...

[pheltzer.livejournal.com]

Of course if my readings have been correct... the whole article is something of a farse anyway... since it appears that congressmen don't actually swear on any book, Bible, Koran, Dianetics, whatever. They just raise their hand and give an oath. So looks like Prager is just stirring up controversy for controversy sake. Either that or he's completely ignorant on the subject he's writting about. Which wouldn't surprise me.

[bammba-m.livejournal.com]

Assuming that it's not total BS, how is using a book you don't believe in a sign of how strongly you take your oath?

[ericcoleman]

This is one of the many reasons why Bamm's are wonderful folk ...

I hadn't thought of that ...

[violachic.livejournal.com]

I'd totally take my oath of office on the collected works of Voltaire.

[bammba-m.livejournal.com]

Oooh, can i take mine on a PB&J?? But only if it's strawberry preserves. (So i guess that's a PB&P...hee hee!!)

Then i get the oath, and to eat the evidence. Win-Win.

[mstrhypno.livejournal.com]

Prager does NOT know what he is talking about. US Congresscritters do NOT place their hands on ANYbook when sworn into office (which shows that Ellison also is a complete ignoramus on this issue as well!). They stand up and take their Oath of Office which reads as follows:

I, Loyal Citizen of the Republic, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

This is done with their right hand in the air while swearing the Oath before a Senior member of Congress, chosen to administer the Oath to the incoming junior members.

Neither of them knows what they are talking about.

Quod Erat Demonstratum.

Lee

[ericcoleman]

That doesn't jibe with other stuff I have read when working on this post (and over the last few days). The impression I get is that people DO swear on a Bible (or whatever) if they wish to.

I need to find the article that talks about what presidents have sworn on the last 50 years or so (and according to one source I read, I think perhaps the Wikipedia article mentioned, which of course one needs to be a little skeptical about, the So help me God is also an option, not a requirement)

[mstrhypno.livejournal.com]

I pulled it directly from Ask.com and their source is the House Archives.

Lee

[ericcoleman]

here is the article I saw earlier ... but it's not that specific ... you got the link ... I'd like to know for certain ... information junkie that I am

[mstrhypno.livejournal.com]

Okay, the exact citation, from the Clerk's Office, cites as follows, from the 109th Congress (2005):

The oath of office required by the sixth article of the Constitution of the United States, and as provided by section 2 of the act of May 13, 1884 (23 Stat. 22), to be administered to members, Resident Commissioner, and Delegates of the House of Representatives, the text of which is carried in 5 U.S.C. 3331:

"I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

http://clerk.house.gov/members/oathoffice.html

No mention is made, one way or another, if a hand is placed on a Bible or not, but as the Oath is administered en masse I believe that it is not and, from what photos I have seen of it on other ask.com sites, it is sometimes done and sometimes nt, depending on if only one Congresscritter is being swonr or a bunch are.

So we both could be correct.

Lee

[ericcoleman]

The more that I look, it seems that some folks will have a Bible (or whatever) for a photo op ... but few if any actually swear on it ...

[pheltzer.livejournal.com]

Traditionally the President does swear and/or affirm with their hand on a Family Bible. Being as we've never had a non-Christian President no problem. First time we get a Jewish or Muslim or Pastafarian President... watch the fireworks.

[blur01.livejournal.com]

And for just that reason, I dont expect that to happen any time soon.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

I've mentioned this too many times to make the links, but: Two presidents have been affirmed, not sworn in (Pierce, Hoover), and the Quaker Nixon was sworn in on two Bibles. The oath is important, not the symbol. And besides (as someone else in LJ wisely pointed out), wouldn't you want someone to swear an oath on a book which they held as holy?

I could swear on the New Testament (if it didn't include the Old) and while I respect the words, it wouldn't regard my oath as binding in a Ten Commandments sort of way. Indeed, if they forced me to take an oath on something I didn't believe, I wouldn't respect the oath. To insist otherwise indicates religious fanaticism, not devotion.

One of the great lessons of 9/11 is that the convictions of misplaced faith is as strong or stronger than the convictions of faith. Ellison is my Congressman. In the Shockwave Radio interview of Keith Ellison, I asked him about being a Muslim. He said the subject had never come up in his elections to the MN State legislature. I don't recall it being an issue in the election (except to note that he would be the first Muslim in Congress). Every now and then Minnesota Nice means something.

Aside: Iirc, Ellison is also the first black Congressman from MN. No one's even talking about that. Even Sphincter Conservatives have moved on, at least for now.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

The fireworks could get just as interesting if a non-Abrahamic person (could be an atheist or a Hindu, doesn't have to be a pagan with the associated baggage of all the idiots that think pagans are satanists) publicly refused to swear by God. I'd like to see the Supreme Court dance their way out of that one they way they did on Michael Newdow's challenge to the blatantly unconstitutional "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.

[mplsfish.livejournal.com]

What if the swearee is a lefty? Is there some lore concerning the right hand? Maybe it is to show weaponlesness.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

*heh*

Maybe it's left over (if you'll pardon the expression) from the cultures where you don't use your left hand for eating. It would be gauche.

What if you've lost both arms defending your country? Can't you serve in office?

[freeimprov.livejournal.com]

I think I summed it up well enough the other day when I said "Dennis Prager is a dick".

Several times.