Eric, I would not have expected such an asshole comment from you no matter what your political leanings. 1) nobody died. 2) the victim received appropriate emergency medical treatment. 3) The only people who weren't told were the press. As far as I can tell this is a non-incident. People who go out with guns damn well better know that there is a risk involved.
I would not argue the point that it was an asshole comment. I think it was necessary, and I would like to think I would have made the same comment regardless of the political leanings of the VP (I think it would do Al Gore a world of good to go hunting, but that is another conversation)
But seriously, and in non-asshole mode (and I do forget that most of my friends here don't see this acerbic side of me often)
There are important legal issues here. A person was shot. Allegedlly Cheney told the local authorities to keep their mouths shut about the incident.
When a person is shot, no matter what the circumstance, the law has to be involved. It is a public, legal issue. When it is the Vice President who has done the shooting, it is his responsibility to be straight forward about it.
No matter what his reasonings, to much of the public it is going to smack of an attempted cover up. He is the Vice President, he shot someone (and someone did something stupid here, probably Whittington, Cheney is too experienced), the FIRST THING he should have done was talk to the press. If he had, it would have been a non-incident. He still hasn't.
And that calls for a certain amount of abuse. Was it appropriate, or even accurate ... no probably not. Was it an asshole comment, absolutely. But ... imagine it had been two folks on the left involved here, I was far far gentler than any right wing pundit would have been. If it had been Al Gore, Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly quite possibly would have said the same thing, undoubtably something far worse. Give it serious thought. Would you have been offended then?
If your answer is yes, then I will deeply apologize to you the next time I see you.
Gretchen hasn't seen this yet, but I'll note that, yes, she gets P.O.'d at Bill O'Reilly when he wanders off into the deep end of the pool too.
Not having been on the ground at the site of the accident, I'll say that the right things -- in general -- seem to have been done. The first concern was to get the victim emergency treatment and it appears that he'll be fine. (Or, at least, as fine as anyone his age is.)
Based on the fragmentary reports that I've seen (and I'm sure I could see plenty of reports from various sources trying to spin this one way or the other should I want to go Google them, so I don't really need an index), it looks like the Secret Service and the local cops got into a turf war, which doesn't surprise me either.
Why didn't they issue a press release immediately? Damfino. Probably wasn't the first thing on their minds at the time. All things considered, I'm happy they got the guy into the ambulance instead of stopping to file a press release first. :)
she gets P.O.'d at Bill O'Reilly when he wanders off into the deep end of the pool too.
I figured that was the case, but I don't know Gretchen well.
From the reports I have read (and they are on the leftist side, and some of them are certainly bothering me) the Secret Service kept the local cops away from Cheney for hours. That worries me. Why?
Whittington has had a heart attack now. I hope he makes it, and yes it bothers me that there are probably folks on my side of the fence who hopes that he dosnt, just so they can say that Cheney killed him.
This morning I talked to a couple friends who are hunters, they agree that it was probably Whittington's fault in this. They also said it was a good thing it was a 28 gauge and not a 12 gauge.
The CBS radio news report suggests that Whittington is ok. (Which I'm happy to hear.)
The Chicago Tribune hunting columnist surveyed a number of local hunters who said that Cheney should have made sure that there was no one in the field of fire before shooting. This is also correct, even if it was in some sense Whittington's fault for being where he wasn't expected to be. (I'm not suggesting that question to be settled, just to be clear.) At least one of the hunters commented that everyone gets peppered by some birdshot if they're hunting long enough, which is probably also true, and was one of Gretchen's observations last night.
Yes, same situation for a democrat and a buddy? Same comparison? Yeah, same reaction from me. Ted Kennedy, through stupidity or arrogance or drunkenness caused a woman's death. And his position protected him from consequence.
Guys who wander around in packs shooting at innocent creatures damn well better know that they are under some risk of getting shot themselves. They are there voluntarily.
The press, in the last 20 years or so, has made an artform out of getting hysterical when there is no real news. And that's all the press is doing here. Getting hysterical because they can. Not because there is any real reason to do so.
Kennedy should have fried for what he did, and so should a lot of other people. I agree wholeheartedly that position and power get people off when they shouldn't have. I'm trying to remember the line in MY FAVORITE YEAR when Alan Swann said something like: on the one hand, I get away with murder because I'm famous, on the other, I get unwarranted made-up personal attacks and complaints from people because I'm famous.
This also includes the Clintons and most of the political leadership of this country. The number of people in power on both sides of the aisle who got improper deferments, or into messes because their egos got into a major and painful collision with reality (think Gary Hart and then some) are flipping legion.
It's disheartening, that's what it is, especially when you throw things like the K Street Project into it.
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ericcoleman
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no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 03:17 am (UTC)1) nobody died.
2) the victim received appropriate emergency medical treatment.
3) The only people who weren't told were the press.
As far as I can tell this is a non-incident. People who go out with guns damn well better know that there is a risk involved.
GHR
no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 01:22 pm (UTC)But seriously, and in non-asshole mode (and I do forget that most of my friends here don't see this acerbic side of me often)
There are important legal issues here. A person was shot. Allegedlly Cheney told the local authorities to keep their mouths shut about the incident.
When a person is shot, no matter what the circumstance, the law has to be involved. It is a public, legal issue. When it is the Vice President who has done the shooting, it is his responsibility to be straight forward about it.
No matter what his reasonings, to much of the public it is going to smack of an attempted cover up. He is the Vice President, he shot someone (and someone did something stupid here, probably Whittington, Cheney is too experienced), the FIRST THING he should have done was talk to the press. If he had, it would have been a non-incident. He still hasn't.
And that calls for a certain amount of abuse. Was it appropriate, or even accurate ... no probably not. Was it an asshole comment, absolutely. But ... imagine it had been two folks on the left involved here, I was far far gentler than any right wing pundit would have been. If it had been Al Gore, Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly quite possibly would have said the same thing, undoubtably something far worse. Give it serious thought. Would you have been offended then?
If your answer is yes, then I will deeply apologize to you the next time I see you.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 06:42 pm (UTC)Not having been on the ground at the site of the accident, I'll say that the right things -- in general -- seem to have been done. The first concern was to get the victim emergency treatment and it appears that he'll be fine. (Or, at least, as fine as anyone his age is.)
Based on the fragmentary reports that I've seen (and I'm sure I could see plenty of reports from various sources trying to spin this one way or the other should I want to go Google them, so I don't really need an index), it looks like the Secret Service and the local cops got into a turf war, which doesn't surprise me either.
Why didn't they issue a press release immediately? Damfino. Probably wasn't the first thing on their minds at the time. All things considered, I'm happy they got the guy into the ambulance instead of stopping to file a press release first. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 07:00 pm (UTC)I figured that was the case, but I don't know Gretchen well.
From the reports I have read (and they are on the leftist side, and some of them are certainly bothering me) the Secret Service kept the local cops away from Cheney for hours. That worries me. Why?
Whittington has had a heart attack now. I hope he makes it, and yes it bothers me that there are probably folks on my side of the fence who hopes that he dosnt, just so they can say that Cheney killed him.
This morning I talked to a couple friends who are hunters, they agree that it was probably Whittington's fault in this. They also said it was a good thing it was a 28 gauge and not a 12 gauge.
But I ramble ... yeah ... big surprise.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 08:12 pm (UTC)The Chicago Tribune hunting columnist surveyed a number of local hunters who said that Cheney should have made sure that there was no one in the field of fire before shooting. This is also correct, even if it was in some sense Whittington's fault for being where he wasn't expected to be. (I'm not suggesting that question to be settled, just to be clear.) At least one of the hunters commented that everyone gets peppered by some birdshot if they're hunting long enough, which is probably also true, and was one of Gretchen's observations last night.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 11:23 pm (UTC)Ted Kennedy, through stupidity or arrogance or drunkenness caused a woman's death. And his position protected him from consequence.
Guys who wander around in packs shooting at innocent creatures damn well better know that they are under some risk of getting shot themselves. They are there voluntarily.
The press, in the last 20 years or so, has made an artform out of getting hysterical when there is no real news.
And that's all the press is doing here. Getting hysterical because they can. Not because there is any real reason to do so.
GHR
no subject
Date: 2006-02-15 06:35 pm (UTC)This also includes the Clintons and most of the political leadership of this country. The number of people in power on both sides of the aisle who got improper deferments, or into messes because their egos got into a major and painful collision with reality (think Gary Hart and then some) are flipping legion.
It's disheartening, that's what it is, especially when you throw things like the K Street Project into it.