So, let's talk about this here, since I made a flippant comment elsewhere

[ericcoleman]

This started with a flippant comment on philady's LJ, but it seems to have escalated, so I feel I should discuss it.

As some of you know, I do not attend Convergence



philady posted a poll here that said

Are you getting stoked for CONvergence?
Yes.
HELL YES!
I'm not going. I'm lame.

Me being me, I said

"I'm not going, the people who run Convergence are lame"

433 took exception to this, and for good reason.

So, the reason for my problems with Convergence go back several years. When I was trying to do the 12 cons in 12 months I contacted them to see about playing.

I have one rule when it comes to cons, if I contact a con about playing, it is my responsibility to pay for my badge. If they comp me, that's a good thing, but that is up to them.

If they contact me, they are contacting me as a pro. I don't make much of my living playing music, but I certainly do at least a little. Unless you are a tiny tiny con, you comp the pros. Period.

The next year I was contacted, please come play at the con. Cool. I had a good time the year before. Oh, if you want to do anything else, you have to buy a badge.

I said that I can't do that, you're asking me to drive there and play a show for no recompense except hopefully selling some CDs, I can't. I was nice about it, I do try to treat any venue I play with a good degree of professionalism, then the guy got all defensive and weird and went off on a rant about how it is not "pay to play" since I would get into my own show free.

I live 200+ miles away from the Twin Cities. At that point driving there and back cost me around 60 bucks. This guy asked me to play a free show that is costing me money, and tells me that it is not "pay to play". If I was local I suppose that I might have had a different reaction. I'm not.

The way I see this is like ... well ... if I was playing at a club, and they said, "sure, you can be on the stage, but if you want to go anywhere else you have to pay the cover charge".

It's a terrible way to treat people who you invite in to perform for and entertain YOUR guests. We are part of the show. You should show us respect. I think I may have had a different reaction if not for the "it's not pay to play thing". It would have just been left there, and I wouldn't go to Convergence. But the guy was an ass.

I know a little about the history of TC cons, and I know that there was a point where too many people got comped, things got out of control. But there is a point at which it is just silly.

So there is why I made my little flippant comment 433. It wasn't the best way to handle it, but maybe this will do some good. I have talked to other folks involved with Convergence about this, but nothing has come of it. It's a big con. You can do what you want because of that. But it does not serve the con well to treat people badly.

Comments

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

I see a couple of different issues here; one is that the concom’s attitudes do, by some mysterious alchemy, have a significant effect on the con. I want to write on that, but it’s not something I can put into words easily. For now, let me just state that I do respect and honor the volunteers who run cons, they put in many hours of hard work and don’t always get their memberships free.

The issue I want to write about right now is a matter of perceptions, or perhaps definitions. Someone can sell one or two stories in anthologies or magazines, for a pittance, and be seen as, and treated as, a professional writer by concoms. Someone can have songs on 10 or more live filk albums, and/or have one or more professional-sounding CDs out, and not get the same recognition, either in terms of respectful behavior or in terms of comping (or refunding) a membership.

Eric is right—going to a convention is a substantial expense, the least of which (and for this I thank the concoms, by the way) is the membership cost. Even when a panelist/performer gets their membership comped/refunded they still have to pay for gas, tolls, a room, and food.

And, for a musician, there are extra considerations—costs for materials (last time I priced autoharp strings a set was $60); additional costs due to lugging more weight; practice time (a musician can’t simply show up with a cup of caffeine and a few opinions); & time at the con for tuning, vocal warm-ups, sound-checks, etc. (this stuff can easily take an hour). Oh—and sleep. Late night partying/filking often gets cut short by 2-4 hours. This is all time that they can’t spend doing any of the other things one goes to a con for.

As someone who’s done both concerts and panels at a con, concerts take up about three times as much time at the con, and 10+ times as much time before the con, than participating on a panel.

Another contrast is that, although scientists and authors have also done other work that leads to them getting asked to speak, they also get other pay for their work. Thousands of hours writing a book has generally translated into real money by the time an author is known to a concom.

In contrast, thousands of hours practicing music does not do anything to pay the bills. And self-publishing a CD generally costs a few thousand of the musician’s dollars, with no guarantee they will sell enough of the things to even make back costs. (Roper jokes about insulating his basement with unsold tapes and CDs.)

I’m not trying to insist concoms must change their policies for musicians performing at their con (I know that it’s tricky to balance what is reasonable with what they can afford while keeping costs down), but I think this conversation is happening, in part, because most concoms don’t have the information needed to understand where Eric is coming from.

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

Well put.

[freeimprov.livejournal.com]

I think you're basically right... fannish musicians are generally treated with far less respect and deference than fannish writers or artists. Marscon is a pleasant exception to this.

As a musician, I'm happy to get paid AT ALL to play. Very few musicians have a positive cash flow on their art; probably fewer fannish musicians. Comping them (when they're invited) is a simple matter of honoring their service, for very little cost to the con. It's a huge deal to many musicians to get even that much respect.