So, let's talk about this here, since I made a flippant comment elsewhere

[ericcoleman]

This started with a flippant comment on philady's LJ, but it seems to have escalated, so I feel I should discuss it.

As some of you know, I do not attend Convergence



philady posted a poll here that said

Are you getting stoked for CONvergence?
Yes.
HELL YES!
I'm not going. I'm lame.

Me being me, I said

"I'm not going, the people who run Convergence are lame"

433 took exception to this, and for good reason.

So, the reason for my problems with Convergence go back several years. When I was trying to do the 12 cons in 12 months I contacted them to see about playing.

I have one rule when it comes to cons, if I contact a con about playing, it is my responsibility to pay for my badge. If they comp me, that's a good thing, but that is up to them.

If they contact me, they are contacting me as a pro. I don't make much of my living playing music, but I certainly do at least a little. Unless you are a tiny tiny con, you comp the pros. Period.

The next year I was contacted, please come play at the con. Cool. I had a good time the year before. Oh, if you want to do anything else, you have to buy a badge.

I said that I can't do that, you're asking me to drive there and play a show for no recompense except hopefully selling some CDs, I can't. I was nice about it, I do try to treat any venue I play with a good degree of professionalism, then the guy got all defensive and weird and went off on a rant about how it is not "pay to play" since I would get into my own show free.

I live 200+ miles away from the Twin Cities. At that point driving there and back cost me around 60 bucks. This guy asked me to play a free show that is costing me money, and tells me that it is not "pay to play". If I was local I suppose that I might have had a different reaction. I'm not.

The way I see this is like ... well ... if I was playing at a club, and they said, "sure, you can be on the stage, but if you want to go anywhere else you have to pay the cover charge".

It's a terrible way to treat people who you invite in to perform for and entertain YOUR guests. We are part of the show. You should show us respect. I think I may have had a different reaction if not for the "it's not pay to play thing". It would have just been left there, and I wouldn't go to Convergence. But the guy was an ass.

I know a little about the history of TC cons, and I know that there was a point where too many people got comped, things got out of control. But there is a point at which it is just silly.

So there is why I made my little flippant comment 433. It wasn't the best way to handle it, but maybe this will do some good. I have talked to other folks involved with Convergence about this, but nothing has come of it. It's a big con. You can do what you want because of that. But it does not serve the con well to treat people badly.

Comments

[mle292.livejournal.com]

433 has been known to make an inappropriate flippant comment from time to time, he can get over it.

[johnny9fingers.livejournal.com]

I only do freebies for charities I care about, or telly. Else folk pay me. For things I like I'm prepared to do a reduced fee (right down to expenses in some cases) but....

You're absolutely correct.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

Your link to Convergence is misformed.

Anyway... we've had this conversation before, in various forms. Essentially, you're punishing Convergence for doing follow-up. You came and played one year, then they asked if you wanted to do the same thing again. But by them contacting you, the rules (your rules, not theirs) changed.

I understand your basic objection and don't disagree with your overall take on the fan vs. pro matter, but I think you're magnifying some recruiting enthusiasm and poorly worded remarks.

You could always come to the con and not play. Just sit around filk circles, or actually go to the convention.

[born-to-me.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you are right. If you *ask* to go, you pay. If *they ask you* to attend, *they* pay... or have a really good reason not to (I can understand not comping a badge for local folks if your music track is really big, or if the con is little & poor). There might have been extenuating circumstances, but nothing that makes what that guy did okay.

You are right - just the not comping wasn't the issue, it was that the guy acted like an ass. "No" is a complete sentence, all he had to do was say "we don't comp badges for performers, thank you" and be done.

[coburnsteeth.livejournal.com]

We're playing Convergence on Sunday, but I'm not going to the convention. I dont have 65 bucks. I want to attend, because its a fun party and all my friends will be there but the way Convergence treats their musical acts is very odd to me.

The main reason The Nick Atoms were created was to play Convergence. we got offered Marscon in 2001 right before Convergence and Marscon treated us so well we never looked back. Convergence 2001 we played the main stage and it was awesome! The next year we weren't invited back.

Now the main stage is only used for DJ dance parties and all the bands and musicians have to play a little room.

Convergence is definately not a music friendly con like Marscon is.

[woyro.livejournal.com]

i help run an sf con here in Rochester, NY (astronomicon). its a small con (usually under 400 attendees), but we get a lot of really good people who do panels for us (Rob Sawyer, Nancy Kress, etc). if you perform for us, you AT LEAST get free admission and free space in the dealer's room where you can sell your stuff. if you are the music GOH, then you get a room, food money and some travel expenses.

[mle292.livejournal.com]

From what he's written, it doesn't look like an issue with "rules" as much as it is an issue with "defensive and weird" with a poorly communicated request.

It's possible that my own experience is coloring how I read this, but, based on my own dealings with people in leadership roles at CONvergence, I am not surprised.

IMHO, it is an issue that needs work on an organizational level, I think that other people may have seen that too.

[433.livejournal.com]

We have a policy that pros are indeed comped if they sit a certain number of panels. Performances count as panels. If you had participated in panels about music, you would have been comped.

I'm sorry that it wasn't explained to you, and I'll bring that up with the head of Harmonic CONvergence and the incoming Events Director to make sure that it is explained better in the future. It is indeed bad form to ask someone to come from outside of the state and not explain the policies fully. I wish you had brought this up to someone running the con, so we could have explained it better.

However, I still take issue that you said "the people who run Convergence are lame". You seem to have had an issue with one volunteer out of a 100-person Concom and hundreds of other volunteers, yet you paint us all with the same brush.

Also, I will put forth that there are many musicians and bands who come and play, be it in HarmCON, Connie's Space Lounge, or Mainstage, who register just like everyone else. Some of them travel from great distances as well, further than Iowa.

When we started CONvergence, we wanted to make sure that the issues that happened at other conventions did not happen with us. Therefore, everyone registers save guests and pro panelists who sit a number of panels in their professional field. If a pro panelist is only attending for one or two panels, they receive a temp badge, not a full convention badge.

I'm sorry that we do not see eye-to-eye on this, and that you were not told all your options. We'll try to get better at that.

[ericcoleman]

It should be fixed now.

It's not my rules, it's more or less a rule at every other con I have ever gone to (of more than 200 people). EVERY ... OTHER ... CON. And I have been to a lot of cons.

[433.livejournal.com]

We have basically the same policy save the comped membership. If you are performing, you can sell your CDs, etc.

If you are a GOH, we certainly pay for room, travel, and food.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

I understand completely, and agree with you, though I tend to favor volunteer-run cons being stingy with comps. I just wish you wouldn't let the one experience sour you on Convergence.

(Yup, it's fixed.)

[mle292.livejournal.com]

I wish you had brought this up to someone running the con, so we could have explained it better.

NO. You don't get to blame someone else.

He communicated with the person who had been designated to communicate the information to him. It was NOT his responsibility to find someone unknown to him to dispute given information.

[ericcoleman]

I volunteered for panels as well. I expect to be put to work when I get let in free. I have been on panels of all sorts, ran sound for concerts, and all sorts of other things.

As I said though, my major problem is that the guy was an ass. That is who represented your con to me.

And I may not have been clear when I said that you took exception for my flippant comment, and for good reason. That was meant as an apology, I just didn't do it very well.

As for folks coming from all over, the last year I was there Luke was the only other person from out of town. The other acts were all local. This may have changed since then.

[433.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say that, I'd say that Marscon is a more music-focused con. And that's their thing, and they're good at it. I was at Marscon this year, and they had a huge amount of good bads playing on Saturday.

CONvergence has Mainstage bands on Friday night, the DJs play on Saturday. We have not ever repeated a mainstage band to my knowledge, be they the Nick Atoms, Psychopop, or anyone else. This year we are bringing back Savage Aural Hotbed as part of our 10th Anniversary (they played CONvergence mainstage our first year, 1999).

All cons are not alike. If you want a dementia-music-focused convention in the midwest, you can't do better than Marscon.

[433.livejournal.com]

I didn't say it was his responsibility, Emily, I said that I wished he had said something. Then, we could have handled the situation at the time rather than years down the line.

Communication is a problem, one that we have gotten better at over the years, but obviously still need to work on.

[coburnsteeth.livejournal.com]

There ARE bands on the mainstage? OK. I stand corrected.

I miss it. It needs to be put to more use for live bands!

[433.livejournal.com]

I agree, what you're describing sounds like the person you talked to didn't give you all the information, and again, I apologize for that. I hope we'll be able to do better in the future.

[ericcoleman]

I said that I wished he had said something.

I did and I told you his reaction.

[coburnsteeth.livejournal.com]

edit: It needs to be put to more use for live con themed bands!

[ericcoleman]

I would like to point out that Marscon is music friendly towards one specific genre of music.

obviously still need to work on

[mle292.livejournal.com]

Just so I understand your communication now - you're saying that when you used the word "wish," you had meant it in the more abstract "wishing for a million dollars" sort of way, rather than a recommendation as to how to handle such a situation in the future?

[coburnsteeth.livejournal.com]

comedy/parody music?

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe I'm not being clear.

What I wished you would have done is, having had a bad interaction with one of our volunteers, contacted their divisional director. I can see how that would be difficult not knowing the inner workings of the con, but hopefully we can make that a bit more transparent in the future. Like I said, I will bring up the situation and see what we can do to make sure confusion and bad feelings like this don't happen again (or at least happen LESS).

[ericcoleman]

well ... yeah ...

Re: obviously still need to work on

[(Anonymous)]

I'm responding to Eric himself.